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Iverson: Shortsighted at bestSaturday, November 28. 2009Trackbacks
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That was a good read, some of those quotes are scary.
Like I said in the RealGM thread though, I think they're going to try something to increase attendance (and TV ratings, which are probably embarrassing as well) and signing AI may be the safest option. Comment (1)
You know, I've been thinking about this way too much over the past couple of days, and I completely agree, the only possible reason for this move is short-term financial gain. The sad thing is I believe they'd be much further down the road to long-term financial gain had they spent a little bit more on a big name coach like Jeff Van Gundy, or even just gone with a defensive guy like Thibodeau.
These comments, if true, just back up everyone's worst fears about Jordan. And I really don't have a hard time believing they're true after seeing what he's done with the team through the first 16 games. I get the feeling hiring Jordan will wind up being the undoing of Stefanski as GM, I just don't know how long it'll take for ownership to reach the end of their rope. I suppose signing Iverson and experiencing a short-term boost in attendance could delay the inevitable somewhat. Comment (1)
For the 04-05 season the Boston Celtics bought back Antoine Walker despite being a "rebuilding" and "young" team, much like the Sixers right now. Danny Ainge had no interest in Walker whatsoever, but to appease fans he did this and the Celtics once again made the playoffs. 3 years later they won the NBA championship.
I read your article on realgm, and you made some serious errors in your impression of this team. Philadelphia is not rebuilding, they don't have that much young talent at all. Truthfully, coming into the season this was supposed to be a playoff team, they tied Andre Igoudala and Elton Brand into long term contract. Elton Brand signed an $82 million dollar deal and has had time to prove what player he is. He is still not a good defender and never really was with LA. The building blocks- Thaddeus and Marquise really will not have their minutes effected because we expect A.I. to play POINT GUARD. The minutes at the point go to Lou Williams, Jrue Holiday, and now (yikes!) Willie Green, who last season was considered by experts and fans alike, the worst starter in the league. Having Iverson gives the team a first ballot hall of famer, who did fill seats in terms of his playoff appearance and would, as you admit- boost season ticket sales. When Lou comes back, i have no doubt he won't have trouble splitting minutes with his friend and mentor. Remember, Lou Williams sat his first few years in this league deep on Philly's bench, it did not stunt his growth and I don't see why the same is not for Jrue. Royal Ivey shouldn't be averaging minutes on any team and is certainly not "developing". -Signing Allen Iverson gives Philadelphia an Franchise icon and hall of famer. This team in the past has made the mistakes of letting it's icons like Wilt Chamberlain, Charles Barkley and Moses Malone finish their careers with other teams. The team has an opportunity to do what is best for their fans and I think that is the point of running an NBA team. Comments (2)
The year Antoine Walker was brought back the Celtics had not yet hit their decline. They were a 45 win team trying to make a playoff push. He had only been gone from the Celtics for a little over a year.
The Sixers situation is nowhere near the same. AI's been gone for nearly 3 years. They have no shot at being a legit playoff team. There positive of this helping a playoff team isn't there. Thaddeus and MARREESE (there's nobody on the Sixers even remotely named Marquise) will not have their minutes affected, but they will have their shots, particularly Thaddeus whose game is isolation and post-up heavy, and who struggles with consistency on catch and shoot situations. He'll also be playing largely out of position. By the way, with Thad playing out of position last night at PF, how did that work out? They got their ass kicked on the defensive glass. Signing Iverson does nothing to fix those weaknesses. Doing what's best for their fans is winning a championship. Not letting a disgraced former star come back and take development time away from their developing young players. If there were a basketball reason (RE: Allen Iverson could get them into the playoffs as a legit contender), then you bring him back. That's clearly not the case here. Iverson's not going to make them a good defensive team, nor is he going to make them a good defensive rebounding team. He'll merely be exciting, and draw fans to the games. To me, that's not worth sacrificing the development of our young players. Comments (4)
Your analysis is ridiculous.
Are you HONESTLY trying to make me believe that adding a person like Iverson will make this team WORSE this season? The team has lost 6 straight...can it really get much worse? I agree about the development of rookies and having them develop slower this season because of less minutes. But Jrue was going to get less minutes anyways if Louis William was healthy. Adding AI just takes over Louis' minutes until he returns, 30+ games later. Count that, 30+ games...that's HALF of the remaining games this year. Adding a Veteran like AI will give this team a go-to guy during the last few minutes of the game -- which is exactly when the 76ers LOSE EVERY GAME this year it seems. They hang around, hang around, and lose in the last 5 minutes. With AI, they might actually get a WIN cuz he has 13 seasons under his belt and 1 MVP title to go with it. I'm not saying AI will fix everything but he sure can't make things much worse nor does he make this team WORSE. Adding AI does NOT MAKE A TEAM WORSE...give him some credit, he's an All Star and he's earned his dues. He may be a drama queen but adding him to a team does NOT make it worse nor will it make the 76ers lose more games this season. Comment (1)
"Your analysis is ridiculous.
Are you HONESTLY trying to make me believe that adding a person like Iverson will make this team WORSE this season? The team has lost 6 straight...can it really get much worse?" I don't believe I said that once in the entire article. If I did, can you quote it? If not, please don't put words in my mouth. What I did say was that adding Allen Iverson is not going to fix this teams defensive problems (which we are currently one of the 5 worst in the league), nor is it going to fix the teams defensive rebounding problems (which we're in the bottom 10 on). Add it all up and I don't believe adding Allen Iverson makes us a legitimate playoff team. Like I said in the article, adding Iverson might make us a 37 win team that sneaks into the first round and gets swept. That's not my goal. (nor, I believe, is it the goal of the organization. The goal of the organization is to play on fans sentimentality and use Iverson as a draw to buy tickets). Comments (4)
Antoine Walker still took the minutes of players like Al Jefferson and Kendrick Perkins. 2 players with ceilings much higher than Jrue Holiday's. I know, I live in Rhode Island, I watched the games.
The fact you ignored most of my arguments to instead draw attention to my misspelling of Marreese shows how weak your argument really is. Why is Thad playing at the 4? Ask Elton Brand and his 82 million dollar contract. Elton Brand has never even been considered a good defensive player and locking him and iggy into long term contracts doesn't fit a "rebuilding" model you seem to think this team fits in. The sixers are 22 in ppg, the are a HORRIBLE all around team, not just defensively. Honestly my advice for you is to kill yourself because any real Philly fan wants AI back and those that don't shouldn't be surprised when a team with such low revenue ends up moving out of the city. I only saw this page because of realgm and i guarantee true Philly fans, like myself, will never look at this site again. So good luck with your sad life. Comments (2)
"Antoine Walker still took the minutes of players like Al Jefferson and Kendrick Perkins. 2 players with ceilings much higher than Jrue Holiday's. I know, I live in Rhode Island, I watched the games.
" ON A 45 WIN TEAM. I find it ironic that you call me out for ignoring your arguments while you ignore mine. "Why is Thad playing at the 4? Ask Elton Brand and his 82 million dollar contract." Except that, you know, the team is much better with Elton Brand at the 4. "Elton Brand has never even been considered a good defensive player" Elton Brand has ALWAYS been considered a good defensive player, from his Duke days, Chicago and Los Angeles. Both post defense and help defense. Check out opponents PER. Check out the on-court/off-court splits. Watch a game. That statement is ridiculous. "locking him and iggy into long term contracts doesn't fit a "rebuilding" model you seem to think this team fits in" 4 of their top 6 players are 25 or under. 3 of those 4 are 21 or under. They're absolutely in rebuilding. Signing Brand was a mistake. Not realizing that you're not ready to retool and that you need to continue rebuilding is just compounding that initial mistake. "The sixers are 22 in ppg, the are a HORRIBLE all around team, not just defensively. " Agreed. Just more reason to believe that one person isn't going to make this team into any kind of contender (especially when he makes defense and rebounding worse). "Honestly my advice for you is to kill yourself because any real Philly fan wants AI back and those that don't shouldn't be surprised when a team with such low revenue ends up moving out of the city. I only saw this page because of realgm and i guarantee true Philly fans, like myself, will never look at this site again. So good luck with your sad life." First sign indicating a weak argument is an ad hominem attack. Trying to attack me does nothing to further your argument. (BTW, I'm a season ticket holder. Have been for years. I guess I'm not a "true' fan though, because I don't see things the way you do. Obviously, anyone who doesn't agree with you is not a true fan). Comments (4)
Curious - Did you consider the Elton Brand deal short-sighted as well?
Comments (2)
No. We had nobody at PF, an aging point guard, Speights hadn't played a game yet. We weren't as young (no real expectations for Speights, Holiday not on team, never thought Lou would be more than a backup) and we were old enough, and had just had a strong showing in the playoffs, and if he came back healthy I thought he had many years left in him.
Basically, I saw basketball reasons for signing Brand. I don't see those same basketball reasons for signing Iverson. Don't see the upside or the long term help. (turns out, we were wrong about Brand's health, and about how close this team was to being a 45-50 win team). Basically, I feel the Iverson move is made for financial/excitement reasons, and the Brand for basketball reasons. Comments (4)
Well for one I liked the Brand signing at the time basketball wise. It did make the team better theoretically if you could fit him in with the other players. BUT still didn't think we were "one player away from contending for much more than one playoff series win."
Andre Miller was playing for one more year so while the team wasn't that young it was poised to get younger with his departure and the drafting of a rookie point (expected all season) that off-season and no real financial flexibility to bring in any veteran of significant substance. So you swap Brand for Miller and either run with Lou at the point or your rookie point guard. That was pretty much known for a while. Unless of course you or anyone advocated resigning Andre Miller and believed the club would win more than one playoff series at best going that route. Wouldn't the smarter long-term view have been to toss everything we had at the younger of the two power forwards (Smith) and try to build the team completely around youth OR if you couldn't get Smith just run with all your young guys. Remember at the time Brand was signed Jason Smith wasn't hurt yet. So you had him and Speights who could battle it out for the starting PF spot and run with Thad, Dala and Lou/rook point. Let those guys develop and really see what you have. If you stink it up in the process you position yourself to improve via lottery picks rather than gambling on an aging PF with limited athletic ability to start with coming off a lower extremity injury. Just a thought. I know what the Iverson deal is about. Its the right move for their current situation. You aren't winning now and probably losing money. As much as people don't like to think about it basketball is a business too and losing money isn't something you should let happen for any stretch of time. You hope AI brings back all his fans from before AND still have a chance the club could catch lightening in a bottle and win some games this season and get back into the playoff hunt (would sell even more tickets with a team winning games with AI than without - check the TV ratings from last year's playoffs vs. the Flyers ratings says enough). I just don't subscribe to idea that this short term move (60 regular season games and maybe a playoff series but probably unlikely) is putting the future in jeopardy and killing development. While I would love to see Jrue play a lot he is only 19 and wasn't going to play before Lou got hurt much anyway so any stunting of development for him was done by the coach. AND you still can and should play him since he fits perfectly next to AI for defensive purposes. Iguodala needs an ego check anyway in my opinion, but I just don't like the guy all that much so that's just my personal opinion. Thad will get less isos for sure. But he should get more easy shots off the pass and ball reversal because of any attention being paid to Iverson. And besides I am also not as big a Thad supporter as most. AND I would not do this deal at all if A.I. can't show he is ready to play physically. I would keep Lou on the bench and Thad/Dala/Brand/Sam starting. OR Sit Thad and run Jrue at the point and AI off the ball. I actually think Lou loves AI just enough that he would take this short term setback in stride when he returns so it wouldn't be a psyche issue with him as much as it would if you sat Thad. Just my opinion. Comments (2)
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